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Arutelu:Horde/Naaru
Originally moved from Talk:Naaru to Talk:Horde. This discussion is officially closed, and is replicated here purely for the purposes of posterity. I imagine with they way horde lore is going now when they make Warcraft 4 the orcs,trolls,tauren will just killed by that forsaken plague or something equally lame. Damn horde got screwed over in several ways in world of warcraft. # getting freed undead who despite having a minds are exactly the same as the scrouge as they are both, irredeemably evil and plan to kill all life # Revantusk,Mok'nathal,ogres,forest trolls never became a playable # Alliance get true shamans and horde gets stuck with God-awful half-assed contrived mockladins. # Alliance gets the naaru(basically rejected letters of the alphabet) beings of pure good and light to help them. But horde don't get earth spirits to help them in the expansion. Worse yet some Naaru attack horde # Drek'thar a important of the horde is turned into a generic npc for the alliance to kill # Horde gets Blood elves,who are not only enemies of orcs and trolls(racist against them too).But are also pure evil,who bring demons into the horde,and torture beings of pure good to create parodies of paladins # All horde cities have a back door # Alliance get exclusive pets and better quests # For the expansion alliance gets the infalliable draenei while gets a irreddeemably evil crack addicts. # Trolls models are half-arsed Angry ogre 03:08, 10 February 2007 (EST) : You need to fulfill two of three requirements to get your ideas onto this page: Your ideas have to be logical, they have to be supported strongly by evidence, or they have to be supported strongly by the community. Unless you can cite your factual claims from an official source and cite your opinions from a community or official source, everything in your list is POV. I disagree basically with everything you have said, and I'm a pretty average Horde player, so you're already shaky on your community support. : If you get the things I mentioned above and you present a concise and logical argument, then we'll include your ideas in the article, but not until then. 10:06, 10 February 2007 (EST) :: Angry Ogre, when will you get it into your thick skull that the Azerothian blood elves are not the same as the Outland blood elves. I also do not appreciate your putting words into mine and Ragestorm's mouths. :: Opinions do not facts make. I don't care whether you think the horde are 'hard done by'. Your opinion on the matter has no place in an article. The number of fallacies in your writing just blow me away. Drek'thar a important of the horde is turned into a generic npc for the alliance to kill - what like every other NPC in game, you mean? Certain races aren't playable yet? How awful, we might as well take our cyanide pills now. Some naaru attack horde? What, you're talking about the ONE naaru in Exodar, yes? The point we just rebutted, but you've so, so skillfully ignored? Do you actually have proof it fights? And you other points ... ugh, they're just mind-bogglingly stupid. :: Angry Ogre, I suggest you actually for once listen to what we're all telling you, and actually think before typing your response. Perhaps even try and take into account what we say? We would really appreciate it, because at the moment, you are just making everyone you come into contact with frustrated and annoyed. :: Going back to the original point, what are we even talking about any more? It seems Angry Ogre has once again brought it down to the generic "blood elves are evil", "alliance are favored", etc etc stuff, which, I think we can agree, we're all pretty tired of by now. 15:11, 10 February 2007 (EST) Though I do have facts,I see what you mean about the community support Montag. Kirkburn theres no difference between Outland blood elves and azeroth's blood elves. They are both demonic racist crack addicts who wasted all their chances of redeemption. Neither have any innocent members of their race, Both of them have the same soulless demonic eyes which burn like green fire(the fact that every single one of them shares this,just tells they have more in common with doomguards then high elves). Both of their brains are permantly warped by demonic magik. Blood elves on Azeroth also use slave labor and torture prisoners. And Drek'thar is basically put in an arena where he's killed daily. Imagine how much of a stink alliance would raise if Brann bronzebeard took the place of Vaandar and was killed all the time by horde. Ogres,Revantusk,and Mok'nathal are an integral part of the horde,all the classic races of the alliance are playable except high elves which have two suitable replacements the night elves and the blood elves. There is no race or species of ogres playable which is a sin considering they have appeared in all games even Warcraft 1 not even elves,dwarves and trolls have appeared in as many games as ogres. And if you don't believe me about O'ros attacking horde try going there yourself on a horde character. Angry ogre 16:51, 10 February 2007 (EST) :You keep saying you have facts but all I've seen are opinions. If these are facts, please try to provide us a link as to where it comes from since many of us aren't convinced. Also, the Azerothian blood elves differ from the Outland blood elves in that they do not exclusively feed off demonic magic but rather all forms of magic. Also, to say that blood elves have 'soulless demonic eyes' would be false in that it's never been proven that the green eyes are indeed the result of fel magic (pure demonic magic). The very fact that the Blood Knights and Priests have glowing green eyes when they draw on holy magic (and holy magic cannot be drawn if the person is infused with fel magic) indicate otherwise. I am also unaware that the blood elves use slave labor, please tell me where this is. :As for your comment on Drek'thar, he is a clan leader and thus the logical candidate to lead the defense of his homeland. As for the part of being a killable NPC, you could say he plays a much smaller role as far as lore importance goes when compared to characters like Jaina, Thrall and the others. And your comment ogres, Revantusks and Mok'nathal not being playable, there are logistic and lore reasons for these. Firstly, the ogres and Revantusks left the Horde after the Second War and never fully rejoined militarily (except the Stonemauls under the orders of Rexxar who no longer leads them). In terms of gameplay logistics, the size of an ogre would make them difficult to fit indoors as well as their superior strength would give them an unfair advantage. As for the Revantusks, the Horde already have trolls and do not need two different types of trolls as playable races. And as for the Mok'Nathal, they were never part of the Horde and there are too few of them on Azeroth to form a significant military arm anyway. :Overall, what I wish to say is that it is still too early to make any judgments as to whether blood elves are 'irredeemably evil' as :TBC has only recently been released and hence much of the game's plot has yet to be revealed. Give it a year or two for their story arc to be played out before you start condemning them. mr. peasant 00.03, 11 February 2007 (GMT) They don't exclusively feed on demonic energy but that do they feed on it daily. Those green crystals in Silvermoon are composed of demonic energy and are there for blood elves to feed on. Its also a confirmed that their green eyes are a product of the massive of evil energ. Just look at Wowwiki's own blood elf page. And the fact that blood knights and blood elf priests both feed on demonic energy to sate their own hellish addiction. I think your forgetting that blood knights and blood elf priests are not good. They are all sick people who obtained their power soley through evil. M'ruu didn't want to give them holy magiks,they tortured him and stole the light. If he had it his way every single blood knight would be cleansed off Azeroth.The blood knights and blood elf priests are completly evil,there is no way you can twist this to make them appear them good. Not all ogres are too big to fit through. http://www.wowwiki.com/images/e/e8/Ogresizecomparison.jpg These ogres could easily fit through all doors. Stonemaul ogres actually care about orcs. Revantusk aren't officialy part of the horde,but neither are blood elves and forsaken,only like the blood elves and forsaken who are using to horde and plan to betray the horde,Revantusk are actually truely friendly with the horde,and care about the plight of the orcs. If the blood elves and forsaken were in power,the horde would be slaughtered with the suriviors used as slaves. Mok'nathal in Outland have enough numbers to be a playable race if the gnomes,blood elves,darkspear trolls can be playable even though their numbers are basically almost nothing, Orcs and ogres could also easily make more mok'nathal. I'm tired of the horde being used for every race that does belong in the alliance. We need a new race that isn't simply an alliance reject. If your wondering about the blood elf slave labor you can find leper gnomes being tortured and forced to weave while being whipped by demons. And yes the fact that all personel at blizzard call them evil,the fact that they are all composed of demonic energy,and all blood npcs admit to only using others. its a pretty much a confirmed fact that their completly evil Angry ogre 20:04, 10 February 2007 (EST) : I'm interested to know more about how "Orcs and ogres could also easily make more mok'nathal". I didn't realise they had a breeding program set up ... 22:02, 10 February 2007 (EST) Orcs and Stonemaul have good relations,good enough for a few interacial mating. Angry ogre 02:31, 11 February 2007 (EST) : Egad, you are going to make me scream. New comments go at the end of articles. Moved. : Anyway, being friends with someone does not mean "let's have rampant sex to create thousands of slightly odd children" :P Half breeds are, almost by definition, rare. I assume the mok'nathal are fertile? I'm not familiar with the area. Are all mok'nathal offspring of orcs and ogres, or are they an entirely new race, and self replicating? 02:50, 11 February 2007 (EST) Basically Mok'nathal are either the children of an orc and an ogre or the child of two mok'nathals. Theres quite a bit of them in outland. Angry ogre 14:19, 11 February 2007 (EST) : Er, no there's not "quite a bit of them". There's one village. 14:32, 11 February 2007 (EST) If Blood Elves were completly evil they wouldn't be given a /cry or /silly emote. :) Hordesupporter 14:29, 11 February 2007 (EST) All their sillies are just racial slurs at their allies or sadistic black humour. Even Arthas had a sense of humour that doesn't mean anything. Their crying also sounds forced and very insincere. Angry ogre 15:06, 11 February 2007 (EST) : Angry, angry, angry, what are we going to do with you. You're so blatantly wrong in almost every one of your arguments that I couldn't help but step into this little clusterfuck of an argument. First of all, the revantusk tribe is only loosely affiliated with the horde- they have ONE village. One. Plus, as stated before, we already have two troll races. Same with the Stonemaul ogres. As for the Mok'Nathal, they ARE affiliated with the Horde, but they are, again, too few in number to be playable. I don't see what the problem is with "mockadins" you have, if you have been reading up on the lore, you'd know they provide many military benefits, to the horde, bloodelves, Azeroth in general, and even the Naaru. The Horde go get nature spirits to help them, disregarding that Ice Elemental in AV, you shamans can summon elementals. Besides, in case you haven't noticed, most elementals are kind of busy bending to the Old God's will (I'm aware that only Azerothean elementals are enthralled to the Old Gods). Never have I heard of a Naaru attacking horde, but then again, I have never heard of the horde attacking the Naaru in exodar, or the alliance killing the BElves that are keeping the silvermoon naaru captive. You give Drek'Thar too much credit, and there are far more important characters that are killable. Hell, you can kill THRALL, and we HAVE, since even before the battlegrounds. Blood elves aren't "pure evil", and they only hate Forest Trolls, not jungle trolls. Besides, if you spent a few minutes in Silvermoon, you'd know they're not too FOND of Jungle trolls, but they accept them in times of need. That is also why they ally with the orcs- otherwise they'd be wiped out. The only Alliance city without a backdoor I can think of is Darnassus. Both IF and SW have the tram, Exodar has the boat entrance. There is like, one exclusive pet I can think the alliance get (fairy dragon), and it is so insignificant, as are your idea of "better quests", I am not going to even bother arguing here. Finally, the troll models are working as intended. Would you prefer the beta ones? Because they are a SLAP TO THE FACE. Omacron 16:16, 11 February 2007 (EST) # The darkspear only have two villiages thats only one more then the Revantusk. So what if theres if already a troll race,theres two elf races,and people are asking more elf races. Stonemaul could easily set up more villiages,or they could ally with ogres with outland. So what if theres only a few mok'nathal,gnomes and darkspear trolls became almost extinct and have almost miniscule number yet they are playable. The blood elves and forsaken aren't even part of the horde,and the stonemaul ogres,Revantusk tribe,and mok'nathal have much better relations with the horde then the blood elves and forsaken who are merely using horde as patsies. # Blood knights bring little military benifits,in the end they are cheap copy of a paladin and much weaker then the real thing. Besides morals are more important then military might otherwise Thrall would have allied then the burning legion. # I saying instead of doing favors for the naaru in outland. Horde should help out elemental spirits. Elemental spirits are friendly unlike the naaru and are an integral part of the horde's culture. And Elemental spririts are completly then the evil elementals. # If you go O'ros on an horde character he will attack you. This just shows how much the naaru truely care for the horde. You can't deny that. # Drek'thar is meant to be killed in world of warcraft. Magni is capable of being killed but its almost impossible to the closed hes in,and the amount of guards in it. To get to the tram you need to enter the alliance city,so by the time you got to the tram every one would alerted to your presence. Meanwhile The back entrance in Orgimmar,the undercity,and thunderbluff lead to the alliance straight to the horde's racial leaders. # Blood elves hate all trolls,they have only fought forest trolls,but they hate all trolls because they are racist. Look at how the troll ambasador is treated there. Thats just blatant racism. They are with them for the sole purpose for using them to protect their pathetic excuses for lives. # The trolls are terrible,what the hell is with their backs and helmets are ruined when a trolls wears them. Meanwhile gnome helmets fit perfectly Angry ogre 21:27, 11 February 2007 (EST) :# Sorry, what? Of course the Darkspear don't have much of a presence building-wise. They've only just arrived! People are asking for more elf races? I'm glad your wild imagination isn't failing you. Very few people want the high elves to be playable, not even Blizzard (they have frequently given reasons against it, such as population). "The blood elves and forsaken aren't even part of the horde", stupid remark. :# Do please tell me where it says this? I would also love to know about where you got this utopian view of military workings from - it doesn't even apply in the real world! Of course you don't ally with your greatest enemy. :# This happens in Nagrand, so -5 points for knowledge. Also -5 points for again, for lying about the naaru. Also, do you mind rereading what you write in future? You appear to enjoy missing out crucial words from your sentences. I'd like to think they're words like "not" and "no", but I doubt it. :# Game. Play. Restriction. Say it to yourself. Perhaps thrice. Maybe you'll understand it then? Do you actually have proof it'll attack? How does it attack? What abilities does it use? Do you know? :# He is meant to be attacked. There's a crucial difference since you're assuming Blizzard are attempting to kill off the character, which they aren't. :# Oh look, it's that word again, "racist". You sure do love it. Perhaps I could remind you that many night elves and humans are also 'racist'? How is the troll ambassador treated exactly? Some information, if you please. :# Wow, what a shocker. Gnome helmets fit. Perhaps that has something to do with their head's shape? Like the fact it's almost identical to humans and dwarves? I don't see them have giant ears or large tusks. But then, I must be missing some massive deformity they have. What's with their backs? They're trolls. Trolls have always hunched over. It's their design. You might as well complain about the shortness of gnomes, for all it matters. /rant 22:34, 11 February 2007 (EST) : More races pls. I want to see the blood elves split up into red and white cell factions. 22:49, 11 February 2007 (EST) Kael joined the burning legion, yet the Horde Blood Elves are so disgusted by this so much that they not only betray their ruler, but continue serving and assisting the horde, this is proof that they are much more benevolent then angry thinks. Hordesupporter 17:31, 11 February 2007 (EST) : The blood elves turn against kael because he betrayed them and they don't want to work for anyone. They are only staying with the horde so they can backstap them later. Thats completly evil. Angry ogre 21:27, 11 February 2007 (EST) :: The word is backstab. It has a 'b'. Now, listen to yourself. How did he betray them? Oh yes, was it because they thought he went too far? Oh right, well they must be evil for not wanting to be allied with someone like that. What form will this backstabbing take by the way? Where is it mentioned in game? Where is it being carried out? Who is doing it? 22:34, 11 February 2007 (EST) #The darkspear don't have a presence building wise because theres so few of them. They've been on Kalimdor as long as the orcs. I hear people all the time on the warcraft forums request high elves to be playable. #The blood elves could have easily gotten holy power through faith,instead they chose evil. If power was more important to them then morals,then they would have necromancers after all they are usefull. The alliance would never have let in Draenei shamans if they tortured elemental spirits to get their powers. By your logic the Alliance should have let in deathknights. #Only in small sections ,I'm saying the horde should be in a army of spirits to combat the legion. #It attacks using holy magic of course. #You'd probably raise a huge stink if Brann bronzebeard was meant to be attacked by horde. #The blood elf is always insulting. And he says all the blood elves are looking at him like he killed someone. #Trolls stood up straight in warcraft 2 and their hunch was no where near as bad in warcraft 3. For instance if a troll puts in a black hat in world of warcraft it comes out as yellow for them. If they could get helmets to fit tauren they could have the helmet cover the trolls whole face. You probably never experienced because you never played a troll. Thing is you wouldn't know these things because you don't play horde. Angry ogre 23:35, 11 February 2007 (EST) : By my logic? I point out the utter madness of YOUR logic, I did not put forth my own. The naaru attacks using holy magic? Have you seen this, or is this another assumption? "If a troll puts in a black hat in world of warcraft it comes out as yellow for them" - are you serious, because I cannot believe that for a moment. : I can't be bothered with this any more. This biased farce has got to end one day. It evident you do not listen to reason or factual evidence. You surround yourself in a maze of half-truths and un-truths in order to defend your crazy world view. Any arguement we put to you you dismiss and ignore as if it never happened. You make up our opinions for us, you assume knowledge about us you cannot possibly have. It is evident you have either not experienced much of the Outland content, or you have and do not care to read it. Sometimes you seem so unfamiliar with the lore, it beggars belief that you're even playing the same game as us. : What are you here to prove? # That blood elves are evil. Time and again we explain to you the situation. But you don't care. in your head they're evil, so that's it. Who cares what the game says. # That the naaru hate the horde. This is a claim that actually has no evidence whatsoever. At all. : The list goes on. Does it not occur to you that you might be losing the argument? I don't recall seeing a single comment in favor of you in the last few weeks. Does that not say anything to you? 00:00, 12 February 2007 (EST) This just shows you've never played a troll. A hat thats black on an orcs will come out dull yellowish brown worn by trolls . Try a troll and use the dressing room to see how trolls look in cloth hats. 1.How many times do I have to explain this to you. Blood elves have put an insane amount of demonic energy into themselves. This demonic energy scrambles their mind,rotted away their soul,and caused their eyes to burn with evil green eyes reflecting. It is explained blood elves have the deformed brain stems as a satyr. Their practiacally demons themselves. Ever wonder why Kael(kael even betrays Illidan),and Illidan started out as started out as sympathetic and not completly evil. Yet by the time of the burning crusade,they lost their sympathetic qualities,sanity and became fully evil. 2.I never said they hated horde I said they just don't give a damn about them. This is evidenced by the fact that there are no naaru in horde cities,O'ros attacking horde. Orcs almost wiped out their favorite subjects the draenei,the Draenei still hold the grudge and I doubt the Naaru really care whether the orcs where tricked into doing its still not something one can forgive and forget about. Also Both Azeroths and outlands blood elves harass the Draenei. Only a small minority in the forsaken believe in the light(a warped version too) the rest of the horde either doesn't care about the light(orcs,tauren,trolls) or abhor(forsaken and blood elves) it. The horde is not going to be part of their grand army of light. Thats plenty of proof about the naaru not caring about horde. Angry ogre 00:04, 12 February 2007 (EST) : Regarding hats (...I can't believe I just said that...), I have played as a troll, to 60, and I have been able to wear black hats and have them stay black. 00:06, 12 February 2007 (EST) Try some of the hats in Orgimmars cloth shop. I specifically remember trying a black hat and find out it was yellow brown and looked completly silly. Angry ogre 00:30, 12 February 2007 (EST) : And this is a reason why the Horde is evil and/or shat on by Blizzard? 00:31, 12 February 2007 (EST) Oh yes, the Troll says "Hey! This hat is supposed to be black, but it's yellow on me?! Guess that means were evil!" lol. Hordesupporter 00:57, 12 February 2007 (EST) The hat thing just shows how little time was put into troll character models. Angry ogre 01:05, 12 February 2007 (EST) : A naaru that attacks horde players? I assume your reffering to the naaru in the exodar, which will of bloody course attack horde players, because it's name plate clearly states that it's aligned with exodar, what npc's attack you and what npc's don't depends on whats written on their nameplate, for example I went through dun morugh with my horde once and entered a building, the npc in there didn't attack me... why? because it's nameplate said it was argent dawn, who i am honored with. Hordesupporter 03:10, 12 February 2007 (EST) :: Note that, as of yet, I/we have yet to see any proof of naaru attacking anyone anywhere, even in Exodar. If someone can come up with any situation where a naaru attacks someone, please mention it. I would sorely love to know exactly how they attack, if they do. 03:24, 12 February 2007 (EST) : As I've heard many times now ... this feels like a waste of time. The same stuff again and again and again and again. You do sometimes have good points, but you wrap it up in such batshit insane ramblings that no-one and I mean no-one will ever accept it. I mean, just re-read your point there about the naaru (number 2). It proved absolutely bugger all, except that you have an uncanny ability to make one point, then back it up with all sorts of irrelevant info. There is a naaru in a horde city, isn't there? Or had you conveniently forgotten that fact for this wild and wacky ride? Have you ever visited Shattrath City? It sure doesn't sound like it. : There is a point when this has to come to an end. I really don't want it to end with me asking you to leave the site, but bear in mind that it will occur if it has to. If you wish to have a real discussion about these matters, organise your thoughts, don't attempt to reinforce your thoughts with irrelevant info, attempt to check your grammar, and just really think before posting. Please. 03:22, 12 February 2007 (EST) Shattrah is for everybody not just horde. The only naaru in a horde city is being kept there against his will. If one see o'ros attack go there any on a horde alt. You can always corpse hop if you die. I'm confused at why you are denying blood elves are evil. First of all you don't even play horde or like blood elves,so why are you defending them against all evidence. Blizzard describes the destiny of the blood elves to be dark. Which is saying,blood elves are destined to bring misery and evil to those around them. Add the fact that the demonic energy burns away the soul, and the blood elves eyes burn with fel energy. You don't get much more blatant proof then that. Angry ogre 18:00, 12 February 2007 (EST) : Who cares who plays what races? It has absolutely no bearing on anything we are talking about. My point is exactly that Shattrath is for everybody, including the horde. If the naaru didn't like the horde, they wouldn't be in Shattrath. Simple as that. The fact they are, and are treated no differently to the alliance single-handedly disproves your ideas. 18:50, 12 February 2007 (EST) The naaru have shown blatant favortism to the alliance and especially the draenei. Theres no Naaru protecting any horde cities,they only gave the draenei the power of the light,O'ros encourages Draenei to fight the horde to the point of even attacking them himself,and their paladin followers wish to destory the forsaken. They only let the horde in because they want help fighting the burning legion not because they like them. Angry ogre 21:49, 12 February 2007 (EST) :Even after you've cited that dark destiny comment, there is a HUGE difference between a "dark destiny" and an objectively evil race. Medivh had a dark destiny, and he was essentially good. Doomhammer and Hellscream, very dark destinies, yet neither of them were evil. The list goes on. --Ragestorm (talk · ) 21:46, 12 February 2007 (EST) Difference is that Grom hellsceam and Mediv were tricked or possesed into doing evil things. Blood elves willing chose a life of evil and dishonesty. Angry ogre 22:09, 12 February 2007 (EST) : "O'ros encourages Draenei to fight the horde to the point of even attacking them himself" ... I'm sorry, what now? Proof, if you will. As I said before, do you or do you not have proof that the naaru dislike the horde. No other alliance races have any direct links to the naaru - are they therefore disliked too? 21:54, 12 February 2007 (EST) If you want to see it yourself go to bloodmyst isle then enter exodar and look for exodar on a horde alt. The humans and dwarves are directly linked to the naaru,thats where they got their powers from in the new lore. For horde on the other hand. 1.blood elves are permanetly tainted with demon energy,orcs still have their green skin from demonic corruption and the forsaken are undead. Thats 3/4 of the horde,that they wil be disgusted to be in the same room with. They can probably smell the intense amounts of corruption on the forsaken and blood elves and the smaller amount on orcs. 2.Only a small minority in the forsaken believe in the light(a warped version too) the rest of the horde either doesn't care about the light(orcs,tauren,trolls) or abhor(forsaken and blood elves) it. 3.Orcs almost wiped out their favorite subjects the draenei,the Draenei still hold the grudge and I doubt the Naaru really care whether the orcs where tricked into doing its still not something one can forgive and forget about. Also Both Azeroths and outlands blood elves harass the Draenei 4.Blood elves tortured a Naaru and stole its powers. 5.They probably heard stories of horde cruelty from the humans and Draenei. Thats more then enough reasons for them to adore the alliance and not care for the horde. Angry ogre 22:01, 12 February 2007 (EST) : Angry ogre's comments removed. I will continue to remove comments made by Angry ogre if they do not somehow inform the article itself in a productive manner. 22:41, 12 February 2007 (EST) ::Hopefully the final word: Of the reasons given, only the M'uru point can be accepted as a reason for the naaru to dislike the Horde. Given that no viable in-game evidence has been put forward, and only a single viable lore reason given, this "theory" shall not be posted on any articles even loosely classified as lore- any attempt to do so shall be reverted with the scope of my powers as Head Bookkeeper. Repeat violation, in the unlikely event of occuring, shall be classed as vandalism and treated as such. ::In the terms of adding this theory to the lore articles, this discussion is over. --Ragestorm (talk · ) 23:04, 12 February 2007 (EST) I am aware it mentions a "dark destiny", however as of right now we don't know exactly what significance the word "dark" has, it may mean the Blood Elves will turn into a darker people, it may mean something involving the relation of Kael's insanity and how the blood elves will respond, or it may mean something more sinister... (oooo... foreshadowing lol) to make it simple, although Blizzard may be the one who controls lore, they don't BS it as they go, if the Blood Elves have been let in the horde their is a lore explanation, it may be weak lore, but it's lore, so we can do no more then critisize. Hordesupporter 23:20, 12 February 2007 (EST) :Oh, I have no problem with slipping in a mention of a Dark Destiny, my point was that it has no bearing on the issues as hand. However, I think it best if we close and archive this whole discussion.--Ragestorm (talk · ) 23:23, 12 February 2007 (EST)